Tuesday, July 7, 2015

Post-Landorus meta + more BP restrictions

I never got around to checking them out, but Smogon's June stats give some insight as to what's changed now that Landorus-I is gone from OU. And... this is totally the opposite of how I expected things to go. Weavile was stated to be the worst thing a Landorus-I could face, and yet instead of falling off the face of the earth, it climbed from #39 to #21 in one month! The only idea I have is that Garchomp and Landorus-T, the top two Pokémon on the ladder (presumably replacing quite a bit of Landorus-Is on teams) are so common that non-STAB Ice moves just don't cut it anymore. Remember how we were saying a few months ago, when Mamoswine dropped to UU, that OU was so devoid of Ice-types it was getting stupid? Well there's our answer, Weavile is just more adapted to today's metagame than Mamoswine. Kyurem-B is also on the rise this month, for what it's worth.

Don't look, but Hippowdon is actually CATCHING UP TO TYRANITAR. The difference between the two went down from 3.5% to 1.3% in just one month. We might be living in a world where Tyranitar is no longer the best Sandstreamer very soon. Holy shit I can't believe I'm typing this. Speaking of defensive titans, Chansey's stock is also down (#39 down from #31), and if the trend keeps up it might struggle to remain in OU by the end of the year. On the other hand, Manaphy was #35 last month, and is actually rounding out the top 20 now! Never underestimate Tail Glow... this guy might actually have been a gamebreaker had it been a bit faster.

On another subject, Smogon added yet another restriction to Baton Pass use, since it turns out even restricting it to one user wasn't enough to curb its gamebreaking tendencies. And trust me, this is the most stupidly elaborate restriction I've ever seen from Smogon. Get a load of this: you are allowed to use only one Baton Pass user, but you can't use it to pass speed and something else at the same time. The most immediate consequence is that you can't pass Shell Smash or Geomancy anymore. (Funny timing, since Serebii's latest PotWs were Huntail and Gorebyss. I swear I'm going to die of laughter if Smeargle is next.) You also can't use Scolipede to pass Speed Boosts and Iron Defense/Swords Dance at the same time. (And to be honest, I wonder how much this new development would hinder Blaziken if it was allowed.)

Yeah, that's ridiculously convoluted. Personally, I think that if they had to do something, banning Baton Pass altogether would've been a better avenue. I mean, it's hard to justify using it at all if you can't pass boosts on the most important stat, right? Now I know what you're thinking, namely how I said a straight ban on Swagger was stupid... however, the key difference between that and the Swagger ban is that a combo ban on Swagger and Foul Play would've been a lot more straightforward than this overcomplicated mess. I should also clarify, this new ban doesn't restrict teambuilding at all, it just makes Baton Pass unavailable in the middle of battle if you have boosts in both speed and another stat.

Furthermore, still on the subject of Baton Pass, they're also reviewing its use as far as past generations go. Those metagames have evolved recently in such a way that restrictions need to be applied now that weren't necessary back then for whatever reason. Since I don't play past gens anymore, I can't say anything for sure about it, especially not the answer to the question "why is BP causing easy wins now but not back then?", but maybe someone can enlighten me.

18 comments:

  1. Okay, this is just rediculous. They have gone too far with the Baton Pass thing now. Just limiting the number of Baton Pass users should have been enough and if it wasn't, just ban the move entirely. There was no need for this super convoluted ban.

    As for why Baton Pass wasn't so devastating back then as it is now, you have to bear in mind. This generation has 2 things which didn't in previous generations.

    1) Speed Boost Scolipede
    2) Mega Pokemon

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    1. I was talking about previous gens. Why was Baton Pass not an issue back in gens 3 and 4, but is a problem now in the gens 3 and 4 metagames?

      I'd say Geomancy Smeargle and the arrival of Magic Bounce users more potent than Espeon is no stranger to the current situation in gen 6 OU.

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  2. This seems like it will set a pretty bad precedent and it shows why you have to tread very carefully with complex bans. Now that they've done this, what's to stop them from banning other wacky combinations (of pokemon, moves, items, whatever)?

    Also, I thought it was against their policy to alter prior generations- once a new gen comes along, the old ones are frozen, with regard to tiering, rule changes, etc? Is baton pass now really causing so much trouble that they're possibly throwing all that out the window?

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    1. Remember back in early 2011, when there was talk of a Drizzle + Swift Swim ban, and the ban's apologists said the "slippery slope" argument was invalid? Four years later, we now have official confirmation it wasn't.

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    2. What next? They ban all moves with less than a certain accuracy? They're like Eike Kutsch from Shadow of Destiny. They like taking the most convoluted, roundabout way around the problem and hoping their methods will make the problem go away. Though they at least have some restraint, hence why Aegislash isn't centralizing OU at this point...

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    3. "I wonder if that ban's still around..."

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  3. I advocate the easy solution for this too. Then again, Garchomp and this show they're not always willing to go the route that cripples the least amount of Pokemon. At least Gen 6 made the Sand Veil and Snow Cloak bans entirely unnecessary...By crippling the usefulness of them to only be good for 8 turns, so better hope they swept or are ready to sweep by then. Baton Pass already had Trap Passing be made a thing of the past. And yeah, Smeargle's gonna drop off the face of the Earth now...

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  4. It;s hard for me to fathom the thought of Smogon changing the previous generations. there have been a total of 0 changes to the game since Pokemon X and Y were released a year and a half to go. Why they would need to change anything else is beyond me. As for Hippowdown, it simply counters what Tyranitar cannot. Examples include Terrakion and Garchomp. Chansey is still extremely good at walling but the fact that it cannot gain Leftovers boost in a metagame in which Sandstorm is a GLARING flaw. Landorus-I's ban is justified for obvious reason is obvious; there are not enough counters. The fact that Weavile was the biggest threat to Landorus is a BAD sign. Weavile kicks ass, but can easily get it's ass kicked as well due to it's low defenses and poor defensive typing. Dark Ice is AWESOME offensively but TERRIBLE defensely. Like I said, hits hard but get's hit hard as well.

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    1. The Chansey thing makes sense (Knock Off screws it over badly as well), but people aren't going back to Blissey either - it's being used less than ever as well.

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    2. I think it's safe to say that the pink fat egg has FINALLY been cooked.

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    3. Yeah, there are much better alternatives for clerics now. You've got Clefable, Latias, Jirachi, Sylveon... hell, even Alomomola is slowly becoming a thing.

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    4. The fact that Blissey is normal certainly does not help at all.

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  5. I honestly think that Smogon fucked up here. It's not even this rule that's super enforceable in a simulator (you could easily detect drizzle+swiftswim and whatnot before battles) but this particular rule just seems so convoluted. I really don't like when a restriction is placed in-battle- it's like saying that Meta Knight can't do some attack that everyone agrees is broken rather than just banning him outright from Brawl, and it's automatic loss if the person uses that move that's totally right within their reach.

    Also, what happens if you get sticky-webbed? Can you pass the +0 speed after one turn? Will a meta evolve around speeding up your opponent's baton passers somehow so that they can't pass their stats, by some Contrary shenanigans or something? It's ridiculous.

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    1. If such a thing is possible, I'm thinking they'll amend the rule, kinda like how Rest doesn't trigger Sleep Clause.

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    2. The latter was mostly a joke, because Contrary would prevent setting up in the first place (duh), and there's as far as I know no way to improve your opponent's speed with your own move. There's no pokemon with both Entrainment and Speed Boost, either.

      As far as I know it's simply not possible but I'm sure there's some troll-minded smogonite who could think of something. Disregarding Taunt or something actually useful, of course.

      Nonetheless, the rule seems poorly thought out.

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    3. The only way I could think of that could potentially forcibly raise your opponent's speed is by using Fling while holding a Salac Berry. I'll have to double check if that works. Bulbapedia says that if Fling throws a berry, the berry's effect will activate on the target, whether that counts for the pinch berries I don't know.

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    4. If someone could think of Funbro, pretty sure someone will find a way if it exists.

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  6. As an aside, Gen 3 Baton Pass was considered broken IN GEN 3. You had no reasonable way to beat it aside from running your own BP team and getting lucky, or getting EXTREMELY LUCKY. Plus it's such a departure from normal Gen 3 meta (which is, as far as I know, structured around setting up a team to beat 95% of threats, and playing them better than your opponent or praying they don't have a threat in that 5%) that it destroys the balance of everything.

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