Monday, January 16, 2012

Late bloomers: are they worth using?


Everyone's favorite zombie overlord picking Lotad as a team member is raising a few eyebrows among my regulars, not because Ludicolo sucks, but rather because of how much you have to wait in order to evolve it. For those of you who haven't learned the game by heart, evolving Lombre can only be achieved after the SEVENTH gym, where Blue Shards become available underwater, and a Water Stone can be found in the Abandoned Ship. And if there's such a thing as fashionably late, that is NOT it.

Which leads right into today's question: how long are you willing to wait before evolving a team member? If you have any pattern recognition at all, I tend to wait until rather late in the game before completing my team, however in the meantime I can still rely on a team of high-leveled, fully evolved Pokémon. Remember how I had a Torterra by the time I got to Jupiter in Platinum? That's a Pokémon I didn't need to wait at all for in order to evolve, but in the same LP I wasn't totally sold on using Togekiss because the earliest I could evolve it was right before the sixth gym, and it eventually made it to level 54 before finally evolving! And that still looks very early when compared with Ludicolo in RSE... as you can imagine, this last one is something I would never ever consider.

The subject became even more relevant with the release of Black and White, where several Pokémon evolve later than previous pseudo-legendaries, including Mienshao, admittedly a favorite of mine. I went ahead and used it despite evolving at level 50 because I was planning for it to stay on my post-game team, which gave it a lot more screentime than if it was merely used up until the E4. But if I wanted to ditch it, would I have gone through the effort of evolving it before Brycen's gym? (Thank Arceus for the Eviolite and Audino!) I'm honestly not sure.

So how about you? Will you stick by a NFE all the way into the late game, or is it just too much of a drawback?

17 comments:

  1. Unlike you, I do not divide myself between pre, and post-game teams. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not my play style). Once I add a member to my party, it's there until the bitter end. With that in mind, I stick to my guns, if there is a Pokemon I want to use, I will wait for it to evolve pretty much no matter how long it takes. I do draw the line at Hydraigon, and Volcarona, but sans those two I will go the distance for my NFE's. Though, like you mentioned, I will have a team of fully evolved strong Pokemon to balance things out, and back them up until they reach their final stage. But, that's just me.

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  2. I'm a pretty patient man when it comes to evolution, I could probably last till the 7th gym for one to evolve.

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  3. I actually used Ludicolo in my Emerald LP, I made a few jokes about how Lombre was never going to evolve but hey, I like using Pokemon not many people use (in that same playthrough I used Minun), I`m fine with waiting though.

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  4. Although that is a long time, I usually don't care if a pokemon won't evolve until way late into the game, as long as the pokemon is the best for a particular team build I'll use it for it will pay off. For instance, I used an Axew in my black and it was a particular pain to evolve to Haxorus and I only managed to do it in Dragonspiral tower, after the seventh gym. It was rather worth it giving my team the excellent type coverage of the Dragon type, especially given that I didn't have a single Ice move.

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  5. I think I could wait up to the 6th or 7th gym but not for something like Ludicolo.

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  6. The longest I've waited for a fully-evolved team member was the sixth gym in Pearl, as I wanted a Garchomp on my team. I don't think I could wait much longer than that, I like having my team defined before I start playing and fully formed by the time I'm at the sixth gym, when my Pokemon are hovering around level 35-40. It's funny that you mention Ludicolo, though, as I didn't realize it was that bad until Chugga put up the base stats in today's video. I remember it being a pain to deal with every time I fought one, and I assumed it had much higher HP and a little more special defense. I'm not going to complain, though, because I like when LPers use lesser Pokemon (ala BikdipOnABus, I'm pretty sure you watch him).

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  7. When D/P came out, I was adamant about using Mismagius in Pearl, simply because I liked it a lot. And hey, it's a version exclusive, so... why not? Then I did my research, and realized that one could only obtain a Dusk Stone AFTER THE GALACTIC WAREHOUSE WTFOMG. Haha, it's that one item right behind the locked doors that lead into the basement, remember? You can see the fucking Stone for, like, the entire game, but you can't get it. And the Galactics are all like, "You want that Dusk Stone, huh? You want it?! TOO BAD, IT'S OURS."

    Just like B/W's EQ TM. >_<

    But anyway, I did in fact keep a Misdreavus from Eterna Forest all the way through the game, patiently waiting for that damn Stone... The Warehouse DOES come after Candice in that game... right? My memory fails me... '_' But assuming that IS the case, well, there's my post-7th Gym evolution for ya.

    Incidentally, I used a Mienshao in White as well, and didn't mind using Mienfoo at all. I think as long as a NFE has an acceptable moveset, I don't care about its stats as much, because the in-game opponents are so feeble. Like, Mienfoo came with Drain Punch, and then I could give it Acrobatics and Rock Slide right away... then U-Turn at level 41... it was great; a freshly caught NFE swept through Brycen's entire Gym... pathetic.

    Which segues perfectly into something I've been wondering: assuming you don't care about the form your Pokémon is in, how far are people willing to go to get the moveset they want? I'm really curious about that. I recall requiring a total of 60, 000 coins for the TMs I wanted to give my team in Pearl. Probably much more than that in Platinum, I'm sure. The other generations, I can't be expected to remember, but I DO remember grinding like crazy for coins for TMs. And assuming you're not using an emulator's save states to cheat, or have the ability to grind for money to simply buy coins, like in the Game Boy games, collecting coins is hellishly monotonous with the Clefairy mini-game, slightly irritating in HGSS, and just terrible in all other Game Corners.

    So, how far are you people willing to go?

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  8. I was never willing to spend hours in front of the slot machines for the sake of TMs. The fact they just replaced the coin grind with you-can't-have-this-until-the-end-of-the-game dickishness annoys me to some extent.

    I'm willing to wait for a final evolution if the payoff is good, though I can't think of any examples offhand. Mienshao would work if Scrafty didn't exist - it's just so much better due to being acquired earlier, evolving earlier and having an excellent movepool. Jellicent and Ferrothorn are probably good examples I'm intending to try out in my current playthrough, though Jellicent has some moveset problems prior to the postgame.

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    1. But since TMs are unlimited use now, it'd be ridiculous if you could just buy those top TMs like you used to. I mean, sure, you can buy Fire Blast, Thunder and Blizzard at Icirrus, but they're really expensive, and only Fire Blast is worth anything anyways (and if I'm not mistaken, you can already have Thunderbolt by that point anyway).

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    2. Unless I'm severely underestimating the groundbreaking power that is Charge Beam, I don't think letting people have access to moves like Earthquake and Ice Beam is going to trash the game's difficulty curve any more than it is already.

      As it is it just makes it harder to build a decent moveset.

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  9. The longest I've waited was while climbing Mt. Coronet in Platinum - my Gabite finally evolved there, and it was GLORIOUS.
    To be honest, my policy tends to be "if it's not likely to be fully-evolved by the Elite Four, leave it", although it'd need to be something truly special for me to consider it that late. Usually the cut-off point is roundabout the 6th Gym for me - hence why I never used Hydreigon (heck, you couldn't even GET one by then!) or Larvesta.

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  10. I think I could probably wait all the way to the E4 to have my team completed. But normally, the members I pick either evolve all the way by Level 40, or can't evolve at all, like legendaries. I think the longest I waited was Dragonite in LeafGreen, which literally evolved in VICTORY ROAD.

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  11. I like to use Pokemon that fully evolve by level 40-41 (though some Pokemon are worth the extra effort). I would never raise a Hydreigon or Volcarona for a simple playthrough, but I did raise the former from level 1 recently, and the feeling you get when you watch your Zweilous, the Pokemon you went through so much BS for, evolve...

    Glorious.

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  12. I'm a tad late, but oh well... Honestly, if I want to use those Pokemons, I wait until I have the means to fully evolve them before catching one. I think the time I waited the most for a fully evolved Pokemon was when I decided to use a Braviary in Pokemon White. But you can only catch one on the route right before the Victory Road and I was grinding the rest of my team for the E4 anyway and like you mentioned, those Audino make the task so much easier.
    So, to summarize, if I want to use a "late bloomer", I wait until I have to grind a bit for the Elite Four or until I have the means to fully evolve it. (The exceptions being Volcarona and Hydreigon, of course)

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  13. I would only wait that long to evolve Shroomish due to Spore. Granted, I would need to Powergrind it, which would turn me off of it in-game...

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  14. I don't have a difference in pre/post game team. I have a team lineup set up before I start the game, and some of them have included very late bloomers (including Hydreigon). I also follow a training regimen so that all of my main team Pokemon are at or above a certain level before each gym, so it really doesn't matter as by the time I hit the Elite Four I'm almost always pushing Lv 60+, more than enough to have every Pokemon on my team fully evolved.

    Downside: I spend two hours grinding for every hour of plot progression. Crazy me.

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  15. If it works, then it works for me. As a Nuzlocker, I know how to use EVERYTHING, and how to preserve them.

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